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Blog: 'Oh What a Tangled Web We Weave...'
‘Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive’.
Sir Walter Scott was right-on in describing those-like on the BOC-who thought they could get away with giving Frazier a free pass for her flagrant misuse of county resources (specifically, the e-mail system); and, moreover, giving their blessings for her to proceed with her planned weekly prayer meetings (believing as they obvious did that it clearly falls within their authority and discretion to do so).
But where it boomeranged and opened them up to widespread public scorn, was when they had the unmitigated gall to attempt to justify their actions, ad absurdum, by claiming (1) that unlike the working stiffs, they are exempt from the county’s communications rules; (2) that, to quote president Howard, ”it isn’t within the board’s purview to discipline another commissioner;” and lastly, that “they are only accountable to the voters at election time.”
A more blatant example of a double standard and of that old adage-”Do as I say, not as I do” I haven’t seen since my days in the army, what with the delectable meals being served in the officer’s mess at tables with waiters, and with enlisted men standing in long lines for food slopped onto trays.
But then again, there are those who contend that it was the double standard that made this country so great
I can only assume by that autocratic attitude that they harbor the illusion that they can damn well do what they please with impunity, short of being convicted of a felony or for lewd or licentious behavior.
And as regards Howard’s justification for his complete turnaround would (pardon the gross expression) make a maggot puke, and was a far cry from his negative reaction when he first got wind of what she planned on doing; namely, his questioning, in so many words, the ”appropriateness" of using government space and e-mail for inviting employees to attend the prayer sessions, and that county staff may feel intimidated to attend them, lest they be placed on her blacklist.
Now, as to why he chose not to turn the matter over to the Ethics Commission (where it rightfully belonged under its mission statement) at that juncture, would be pure conjecture on my part.
But if I were to hazard a guess, I’d say it was because of his concerns that they wouldn’t fully appreciate the sensitivity of bringing one of the commissioners under the gun, and therefore possibly be harsher in rendering a determinations as to her culpability.
And as regards the bigger question as to what caused him to pull in his horns and do a complete turnaround on his initial criticisms of her conduct, I’d bet my bottom dollar that it was largely due to his buying (behind closed doors) Rothschild’s argument, that penalizing one of their own would reflect adversely on the whole board; and damage, perhaps forever more, the image they’d cultivated as being a close-nit, unified group who works together harmoniously and with the utmost respect for one another.
That image had, of course, already been shattered during the budget process, when he and Howard went at each other “tooth and nail,” stopping just short of Howard clobbering him on his head with his gavel to shut him up.
Now, whether or not they realize it, that by approving Frazier holding prayers in the COB raises the obvious question, of if will have the spell over effect of tacitly endorsing their continuing to offering sectarian prayers at the opening of public meetings (typically prayed in Christ name).
And if so, albeit with the full knowledge that they’d be, in effect, telling the U.S. Supreme Court to bug-off with its dumbass ruling banning sectarian prayers in public buildings.
It’s of interest to note, that on 1-17-12 it refused to hear an appeal of that ruling by a county’s commissioners in Forsyth County, GA, thus upholding the lower courts finding "that opening its meetings with a sectarian prayer violates the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution."
You’d think suing the state over its redistricting plan is more than enough battles to fight, without engaging in a war on two fronts with the nation’s highest court. To which, I’m sure Frazier would say, I will fight that anti-God, devil inspired ruling till I draw my last breath.
Move over on the shelf Don Quixote. You’re not the only one who fought windmills.
In closing, I would only say, that I can hardly wait for her to embark on yet another crusade, which undoubtedly will be to restart her much maligned program from her first term, designed to instill positive character traits (at the rate of one per month) in the minds and hearts of the employee force, regardless of it having previously being the laughing stock throughout the county before its demise.
Oh well, so much for the fumbles and high jinks by politicians.
Quote of the week: “Time wounds all heels.” Jane Ace
JoAnn Nicholls
12:36 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Even when the Patch is shown article 36 Declaration of Rights in the Maryland Constitution in another article posted about this, they just cannot stop...cannot let it go....cannot accept that praying in any government building is a lawful act.....please move on folks....you're becoming repetitious...
Native
10:44 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Right on JoAnn!!
newsjunkie
1:44 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
I agree, anyone is free to pray in a government building. I've seen it done many times without an eyebrow being raised. What I can never agree with is the "boss" setting up a, let's be honest, a Christian prayer meeting in the county office building and using her secretary to send out an email "inviting" the county employees. Frazier is either playing dumb or is truly ignorant of the fact that employees would feel intimidated into attending. It is simply not appropriate and you can wave your bible all you want, it doesn't make it right.
Neil Ridgely
1:57 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Ms. Nichols, it is you that are repetitious with your pathetic apologies for the Commissioner’s inappropriate behavior.
Of course County employees have the right to parry at their work stations, to themselves. Many I know bow their heads silently over their meals in the lunch room or at their desks. Many pray silently for the health and welfare of their friends and family. Many pray for divine guidance in difficult decisions they must make in their jobs.
The issue here is when a self-righteous elected official decides to use a public building to impose her religious standards on those whose paycheck she signs. There has been no need for county staff to gather in prayer in the past, nor is their now - it is Frazier's use of the County Communications network to broadcast her plea, the use of a public employee to do it for her, and the use of a public building for an assembly that is appropriate for a church, not a workplace.
There are many churches and chapels within a short walk of the County Office Building for those who feel they need to pray en masse.
Frazier is not exempt from the County Communications Policy and Ethics Ordinance. She is abusing her elective office and will be called to task for it. Regardless, she has to answer to her God for using her office inappropriately and wearing her religion on her sleeve for self-aggrandizement.
SOUTHWESTMINSTER
3:19 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
"Well, you've got to take the bitter with the better" Jane Ace.
Buck Harmon
5:09 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
JoAnn, Please answer this question...How will all County employee's have an equal opportunity to participate in this hour of prayer?
JoAnn Nicholls
9:39 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Mr. Ridgely, me pathetic...coming from Mr. Chaos in Carroll?......LOL...http://www.carrollinchaos.com/ why don't you sue her Mr. Ridgely?....@Buck...How does the actions of someone praying in a public building which is clearly a lawful act, violate another's equal opportunity? You lost me....
Buck Harmon
10:38 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
How will all Carroll County employee's have the opportunity to participate if they would choose to....meaning the employee's that don't work in the office bldg., but are on the road...County road crews, inspectors, landfill employee's etc...
The magic hour of prayer will take some time to get to for these folks, and then getting back to work within an hour will really be difficult.
I have asked this question several times JoAnn and you still remain lost with an answer...carrollinchaos.com offers a very accurate perspective of what truly takes place in the 5 ring circus of this BOC.
Commissioner R Rothschild
11:01 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Internal policies of gov't are created at the pleasure of the Commissioners, and are subject to reasonable interpretation & enforcement by the Board. To that end, they are created by us, for our employees.
This is somewhat analogous to guidelines you establish within your own business for your employees.
The Commissioners are nonetheless held to a strict standard of behavior codified in Section 18 (ETHICS) of the Carroll County Code.
Additionally, we take an oath to uphold the Constitution. In that context, I want to discuss Commissioner Frazier’s email related to prayer. The email was non-sectarian. It did not include, exclude, or reference any specific group or religion. For this reason, I do not believe she violated her oath of office, nor any laws of Maryland.
It is important to point-out that Commissioner Frazier’s email was a reminder of America’s National Day of Prayer, proclaimed by Truman in 1952 and again by Reagan in 1988. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude her email was not a personal misuse of any governmental resources.
Using the secular logic of our opponents, an employee that utilized government email to invite employees to a departmental Christmas celebration would be violating internal email policy. Clearly ridiculous, and I disagree with those that seek to purge God and common sense from Government.
The Board's decision was legally and ethically correct.
Commissioner Richard Rothschild
Buck Harmon
8:04 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
The Board's decision was very wrong at several levels...ethically being the most, your comment here is a lame effort to attempt to justify yet another poorly thought out action. You were hired to make smart decisions, not smart ass decisions. Pull your head out.
Native
10:46 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Thank you Commissioner, you've spelled it out perfectly.
faretheewell
6:31 am on Monday, May 28, 2012
As the invite was "secular", and all are welcome to come to pray, might we assume that a satanist will get her/his opportunity to express their religious beliefs at these events as well?
Commissioner R Rothschild
11:06 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012
MD CONSTITUTION Article 36. That as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty; wherefore, no person ought by any law to be molested in his person or estate, on account of his religious persuasion, or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace or safety of the State, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent, or maintain, or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain, any place of worship, or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness, or juror, on account of his religious belief; provided, he believes in the existence of God, and that under His dispensation such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefor either in this world or in the world to come.
Nothing shall prohibit or require the making reference to belief in, reliance upon, or invoking the aid of God or a Supreme Being in any governmental or public document, proceeding, activity, ceremony, school, institution, or place.
Commissioner RIchard Rothschild
Native
10:46 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
The voice of reason!
Buck Harmon
11:03 am on Thursday, May 24, 2012
Rothschild is using his position as a political stepping stone.....
He's running for KING in the next election cycle.....King Rothschild and the land of Carroll....
Maria Warburton
5:25 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
"all persons are equally entitled to their religious liberty".....it seems the Commissioners choose to pick and choose when this might be appropriate. As in it's ok for your supervisor to ask you to pray with her, knowing not everyone shares the same religious beliefs but might feel coerced to attend anyway, but then see nothing wrong with actively working toward denying the right to civil marriage to all in the State because of their own individual religious beliefs.
Bonnie Grady
7:27 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Richie, Richie, Richie...thank you for another fine example of "say one thing, do another." So deaf to reason that you can't even hear yourself speak.
Friedhard
7:52 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Mr Rothschild: "Internal policies of gov't are created at the pleasure of the Commissioners, and are subject to reasonable interpretation & enforcement by the Board. To that end, they are created by us, for our employees."
Thank you for introducing us to your views on serfdom for civil servants, and your elevated status.
"This is somewhat analogous to guidelines you establish within your own business for your employees."
Our Government is not a business and you don't own it. Using that argument as a justification for your actions is appalling.
Mr. Rothshild's misinterpretation of the role and purpose of representative governance and his ignorance of the efforts of our founding fathers to establish a pluralistic society approach a level of wackiness that would be hilarious if he did not actually wield public power.
Article 36 is interpreted by many as being language that would protect the rest of us from people like Frazier and Rothschilsd, yet he uses it to justify her ability to abuse her power. Comical. Guess the pigs have occupied Orwell's farmhouse.
Buck Harmon
7:54 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Richard, Please answer the question that I asked regarding all employee's having an equal opportunity to attend Carroll County prayer time...you attempt to sound well versed in everything but fall very short in action
What if EVERY County employee wants to attend, will those not working in the office bldg. be slighted, or will the BOC take the show on the road to accommodate wannabe prayers working the streets? Please answer Richard..
David A. Grand
9:06 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
It's ironic that he would cite Article 36 of the Marland Constitution to buttress hiis aruument, since the General Assembly only permits secular prayers to be offered before each session, in conformity with the ruling layed down by the U.S. Surpeme Court. In other words, "What's good for the goose iis good for the gander."
JoAnn Nicholls
9:29 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
If I've learned anything here, it's this....the "Occupy Patch Mob" does not like nor do they agree that the Constitution is the law of the land..,I'll give you all credit that you did a great job over the last century running this country off into totalitarian statism, but that day is over....People are reading this document...you fool only the foolish...
Buck Harmon
10:21 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
JoAnn, I view the Constitution as sacred in my life...that being said , I view Rothschilds behavior as an insult or mockery to sound Constitutional Government.
Actions speak louder than words....this guy turns people off with the rhetoric over substance.
Native
10:47 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
"Occupy Patch Mob". Now that's funny right there!
David J Iacono
10:13 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
These right-wing extremists wave the flag, talk of the Constitution, freedom and liberty while undermining and destroying the very thing they say they support. Do as a say, not as I do. We are the privileged.
Most important, are commissioners exempt from the very rules they impose on their employees. If so, this has nothing to do with freedom, liberty and personal beliefs. It has everything to do with abuse of power and tyranny. It seems it's time to Occupy Carroll County.
Native
10:48 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Hey JoAnn, all these naysayers must've read Alinsky's book. Their tactics are right out of it.
Friedhard
1:39 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
T Party thinking at its finest. Folks, this debacle is what you get when We The People and their hangers-on get political power. Remember that in November.
JoAnn Nicholls
2:18 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Sadly for you FRIEDHARD, the brave one who uses an alias so no one knows them, they DID remember in November 2010....and they will REMEMBER again in 2012 whether they want people like you, who disrespect the Constitution and are dictators, or legislators who uphold the oath they take....which BTW FRIEDHARD, protects YOU TOO!!! I have no doubt FRIEDHARD that you and the "Occupy Patch Mob" cast not one vote for any of the sitting Commissioners, as disrespectful as you speak to/about them, and will follow suit again...Knock yourself out!!!
David A. Grand
2:30 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Give it up folks. For there's nothing that could be said which would change hiis obtuse way of thinking, believiing as he obviouslly does in that medival English concept, that "the king can do no wrong."
Bonnie Grady
2:43 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Ahhh, but the emperor has no clothes!
Bonnie Grady
2:42 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Rothschild said: "The Commissioners are nonetheless held to a strict standard of behavior codified in Section 18 (ETHICS) of the Carroll County Code."
Okay, so why is it that when an ethics complaint is filed against YOU, Mr. Commissioners, you bring in your own private attorney to represent you, instead of using the County Attorney to do the job for which we taxpayers pay? And then you sock it to the taxpayers to the tune of $15,000 to have your private attorney (and campaign financial backer, I might add), paid for by the taxpayers. What's ethical about that?
And what's ethical about you, sir, taking it upon yourself to REWRITE Carroll County's Code of Ethics AFTER the final draft has already been submitted to the State Ethics Board for their approval? Talk about letting the lunatics run the asylum!
Mr. Rothschild, there is nothing ethical about the way you do things. You are a disgrace to public office. If there was a way to have you removed from your position as county commissioner, I would be the first in line to sign the paperwork. You're arrogant, mean-spirited, dishonest, unqualified....shall I go on?
JoeEldersburg
11:55 am on Thursday, May 24, 2012
You are 100% right Bonnie...the hipocrasy is deafening, as it is from all Tea Party nuts across the country! This BOC is so far from ethical it's ridiculous! They have brought nothing but ridicule and embarrassment to our county since practically the day they took office. They have completely demoralized county government and brought governance to a standstill with all their political shenanigans. They are ego-centric, self-promoting and arrogant. Their many lies are tripping them up and it's only a matter of time before they are forced to commit indictable crimes to cover up their abuses of power. Please keep hounding them to make them accountable for their actions...it's the only hope citizens have of being rid of them after their terms are up in 2014. Unfortunately, they will likely have run the county into the ground by then.
JoAnn Nicholls
2:42 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
KINGS are the reason the Constitution was written, was fought for, and died for....The KINGS are the Occupy Patch Mob....They don't believe, nor desire a written body of law that places chains on a tyrannical governing body....If you look into a mirror Mr. Grand...you will see a Grand KING looking back at you....
JoAnn Nicholls
2:59 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Yikes, now they talk about fairy tales...LOL!! this Occupy Patch Mob is a hoot...Hans Christian Amderson is rolling over...along with the founding fathers...
JoAnn Nicholls
3:03 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Buck Harmon.....please site the articles of the Constitution that Commissioner Rothschild has disrespected and violated...since it is sacred to you as you say, I'd like to understand where he has violated his oath specifically.
Buck Harmon
6:06 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
JoAnn, You nor Rothschild have made an attempt to answer the questions that I have asked on this and other blogs...Why?...answer that and i'll teach you a little bit more about the highest law of the land.
Apathetic citizens that read the rhetoric offered by both you and Rothschild tend to stay clear of efforts to restore the Constitution to it's full force.
You don't make efforts to teach or share the knowledge that you claim to have of the Constitution, but rather use it as a tool to attempt to justify bad behavior and abuse of power. The Constitution offers protections from tyrant leaders. Rothschild is a tyrant that you choose to follow....did he join the fellowship or something???
If so, he has become a part of the illusion that MUST be pierced.
JoAnn Nicholls
10:06 pm on Friday, May 25, 2012
STOP ACTING LIKE A THIRD GRADER...I HAVE SHOWN YOU THE ARTICLE IN THE CONSTIUTION WHICH SUPPORTS FRAZIERS RIGHT TO PRAY IN A PUBLIC BUILDING....THE OCCUPY PATCH MOB EITHER CANNOT READ OR THEY SIMPLY DETEST THE BODY OF LAW WHICH DICTATES HOW LEGISLATORS, EXECUTORS, AND JUDGES MUST PROCEED IN GOVERNING...AND IT ALLOWS CITIZENS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE "IF" THEY HAVE ONE OUNCE OF GREY MATTER.....YOU DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION BECAUSE YOU BUCK HARMON DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS OTHER THaN WHAT YOU LITTLE MARXIST FRIENDS TELL YOU!!!
Buck Harmon
9:02 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Jo Ann, You must first earn my respect before I will allow you to insult me.
If the claims that you make held any substance, you would not throw a hissy fit each time you're caught spewing baloney.
Again JoAnn, Please answer the question asked with regard to the topic...Will all of the Carroll County employee's be able to attend the Carroll County Commissioner Prayer session? THINK before you spew JoAnn....
Buck Harmon
9:04 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Or have the BOC simply added more tangle to the web at taxpayer expense?
Native
9:06 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Doesn't matter if they do or not. Or course, to be specific, no they won't. The same goes for any kind of "in service" training session that might be held, everyone will not be able to attend. Again, you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Wearedoomedcc
1:40 am on Thursday, May 24, 2012
Ms. Nichols did anyone ever tell you that writing in all caps is inappropriate on the web. It is the equivalent to shouting which really never gets your point across. Maybe you should stop acting like the third grader and stop throwing hissy fits by shouting.
JoAnn Nicholls
9:08 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
WOW.....EARN THE RESPECT OF BIG BAD BUCK, THE MAN WHO HOLDS THE CONSTITUTION AS "SACRED" BUT HASN'T A CLUE WHAT IT SAYS.....WHO IS THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN????
Buck Harmon
9:09 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Are you drinking JoAnn ??
JoAnn Nicholls
9:26 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
If I am it's no wonder....debating the Occupy Patch Mob is so challenging....Bwahahaha!!! Now go study your Constitution, Bill of Rights and Federalist Papers and try real hard to tell all of us how your Commissioners are violating the law....we're waiting Buckeroo!
Buck Harmon
9:39 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
JoAnn, Take another sip... I have never made the claim that anyone violated the Constitution by conceiving this prayer time ethics dance... you should take the time to read ...and perhaps absorb some of the posts of others before you go off on an induced tangent with the Constitution blinders on... I can only hope that you are a young gal so that maybe you'll still have time to learn the truth. Ethics go beyond words and numbers...... words and numbers are the perceived excuse or justification for this kind of bad behavior. The ethics dance is very telling..
JoAnn Nicholls
9:56 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
LET ME QUOTE YOU.......
Buck Harmon
10:21 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
JoAnn, I view the Constitution as sacred in my life...that being said , I view Rothschilds behavior as an insult or mockery to sound Constitutional Government.
Actions speak louder than words....this guy turns people off with the rhetoric over substance.
Buck Harmon
11:22 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
One more sip JoAnn...where is the claim of a Constitutional violation? Others have said that you have lost you mind...I'm beginning to believe it....
JoAnn Nicholls
10:02 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
BTW, BUCKEROO....THIS IS THE DUMBEST QUESTION I'VE EVER SEEN...IT'S ACTUALLY INCOHERENT...MAKES NO SENSE...AND SHOWS WHAT LITTLE IS GOING ON BETWEEN YOUR EARS....
Buck Harmon
7:54 am on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Richard, Please answer the question that I asked regarding all employee's having an equal opportunity to attend Carroll County prayer time...you attempt to sound well versed in everything but fall very short in action
What if EVERY County employee wants to attend, will those not working in the office bldg. be slighted, or will the BOC take the show on the road to accommodate wannabe prayers working the streets? Please answer Richard..
Reply
Buck Harmon
11:14 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Sip some more JoAnn...You need to answer the question , not avoid it by attempting to insult me...you are a smoke screen for Rothchild...If you can't answer the question then you must surrender to the truth that the Carroll County Government prayer session is wrong headed. I accept your surrender JoAnn....
Native
11:16 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
Why ignore me Buck, I already answered it for you?
Buck Harmon
11:25 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
You are not real...your answer is not correct...
Friedhard
10:24 pm on Wednesday, May 23, 2012
You are right, JoAnn. "We The People" and the Carroll County T-Party sure won this one. This whole issue shows exactly what a T party government looks like. Revel in your glory.
DD
10:38 am on Thursday, May 24, 2012
The actions of Commissioner Frazier were wrong on many levels, especially in that as tax payers we entrust the BOCC to serve as fair and appropriate employers of hundreds of County staff members. In that capacity they should not be placing pressure on County employees to attend a prayer session or worry that if they do not partipate they could lose their job or lose out on promotion opportunities. And the elitist comments from the BOCC expressed here and in their meeting, while disappointing, are sadly not surprising.
JoAnn Nicholls
11:46 am on Thursday, May 24, 2012
You know you've stumped the bully Commie when they say they hold the Constitution as sacred....accuse Rothschild of running an unconstitutional government (last time I check you dweeb there were FIVE Commissioners...FIVE votes), and then when you ask them to site what article of which amendment the accused has been guilty of violating, they call you an insane drunk.......sorry, folks are on to your methods...it's old and ordinary and smells of the halls of a Jr. High School mentality.....come back when you've learned the law....
Buck Harmon
7:48 pm on Thursday, May 24, 2012
You have already surrendered with lack of fact and refusal to answer a simple question JoAnn. Are you an insane drunk?? I would say that based on your behavior, as one of the Patch Mob that both may very well be accurate.
JoAnn Nicholls
9:04 pm on Thursday, May 24, 2012
Tisk...tisk...tisk.....I'm so upset that Buckeroo doesn't like me.......LOL!!
Buck Harmon
10:17 pm on Thursday, May 24, 2012
JoAnn, You seem to be the kind of person that would not do well with anger management classes.....the people there would likely piss you off...and I do like you,
just not the way you think sometimes. I believe that you could offer important insight to any topic, you just fly off to quick...like Rothschild and the other Commissioners with pointless comments attempting to re-direct the topic.
Very poor ethics...
JoAnn Nicholls
10:30 pm on Thursday, May 24, 2012
Hahahahahahaha.....