The Art of Violin sizing: What size violin does your child need? Are Violins that are Too Big Dangerous?

The Art of Violin sizing: What size violin does your child need and why is a violin that is too big dangerous?

I have come to understand in my decade of teaching violin that sizing a student is an art form. It takes a skilled eye, experience and a deep understanding of string technique. 

There are so many factors in finding the correct size that it can be stressful and confusing for parents, teachers and students. Sometimes the process is over simplified and the incorrect size is chosen. It’s more complicated then measuring the child's arm with a yard stick. 

In this article I hope to educate parents and teachers about different violin sizes and the dangers of an instrument that is too large. 

Your 1/16 size violin is not the same as my 1/16 size! All brands are not equal!

Violins come in many sizes and the actual measurement of the instrument varies greatly from different brands! For example, Eastman and Suzuki brand instruments tend to be smaller than a Scherl & Roth. I find that the Scherl & Roth instruments are wider in the upper bout and sometimes the bodies measure anywhere from a 1/2 inch to one inch longer then another brand like Eastman or Suzuki. You will also see that even within the same brand there are variances! Is there anything wrong with that? Absolutely not! It’s true that all violins come in different sizes even within student instruments. There is less standardization (traditional measurments used in violin making to classify a violin as a specific size) in sizes lower then a 1/2. 

What sizes do violins come in? 

From smallest to largest: 1/64, 1/32, 1/16, 1/10, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 7/8, 4/4 (Full Size). Many people are not aware that a 7/8 size violin exists. This size violin is almost as large as a full size and it’s played by and adult with a smaller frame. It is sometimes referred to as “ a lady’s violin”. They are not a standard size and can be difficult to find! 

One size does not fit all. My story: 

 I play on a 7/8 violin because I am short (5’ 2”) and I have child sized hands! My left pinky is a bit shorter then average (finger size and length contributes to sizing, we will get to that later). Sure! I know plenty of other professional players that are my height or even a couple inches shorter that play full sized violins. However, they don’t have the same short pinky or child sized hands. If you measure my arm length using the yardstick method it will say that I need a full size violin. However, I have a hard time playing in higher positions on a full size due to my short pinky. With the narrow upper bout on my 7/8 I can fully get around on my fingerboard and have no problems playing in higher positions. What is the moral of my story? There are many factors one must consider when choosing an instrument size! 

So how do I find the right size? 

You want to look for an instrument that looks proportional on the child as a full sized violin would look on an adult. You reply, “ I don’t play violin, how am I supposed to judge what looks right?” Exactly! You should have a professional size your child. Many music stores offer “petting zoo’s” before the start of the school year where you can meet a professional strings teacher and they will help you select the correct size. Another option is to contact a local, reputable violin teacher and I’m sure they would be happy to help you! 

Who should help me choose the correct size? 

You should contact a professional strings teacher, professional music teacher, string specialist, your private teacher or knowledgable staff at your local music store to get the most accurate information.

Violin Sizing 101

STEP 1: Choose one of the following two methods to get into the ball park. Both are acceptable, and it’s a matter of preference: 

• Fingers in the peg box: Can you wrap your hand around the scroll and put your fingers in the peg box? 

1. The violin is too large if the fingers don’t fully sit in the peg box, or if the fingers reach but the arm is completely straight. The violin is too large if the student has to push his shoulder out in an attempt to reach the scroll. 
2. The violin is too small if the fingers sit in the peg box and there is a very large bend in the arm. 
3. The violin is just right if the fingers sit in the peg box with a slight bend in the arm. 

2. Scroll to the wrist: The scroll of the violin comes to the student’s wrist when the arm is completely stretched out and the instrument is held in playing position. 

STEP 2: Place the violin in playing position yourself (don’t let the student do it as they may hold it incorrectly). Look at them from the back. If the violin is wider then the child’s left shoulder the instrument is too big, choose a smaller size that fits within the shoulders. If it comes to the edge of the child's shoulder or is a bit smaller move to the next step.

STEP 3: Check for finger length and hand size. Have the student place their first finger on the F# of the E string. While keeping this finger down have the student place their pinky on the G string. They should be able to comfortably reach the fourth finger D on the G string with no stretching. If there is a lot stretching and tension the violin is too big. How can you tell if there is tension? The child's hand will feel rock hard, and look at the child's face! 

STEP 4: Can the child hold the violin up with only the weight from the head and no use of the hands? 

If you place the instrument in the correct spot FOR the student and they can hold it up correctly and they have passed all the previous steps, then you have found the correct size! 

If they are struggling with this part try adding a sponge or shoulder rest. If this solution allows the student to hold the violin with no hands, in a relaxed manner you have found the correct size. Due to the longer length of the neck they will need to use a sponge or shoulder rest. 

If they are not able to hold the violin up with the aid of the shoulder rest or sponge, you should try a smaller size. If this works, you have found your size. If it doesn’t you may want to try a different chin rest on both the large and smaller violin. You could also choose a different brand of violin with the same size label that typically measures a bit smaller then the standard size. 

Let’s talk Viola for a second...

The smallest, standard size a viola comes in is a 12”. This is roughly comparable to a 1/2 size violin. On average, the beginning fourth grader requires a 1/4 size violin. Therefore, most students in the fourth grade are not quite big enough to start on a viola. Is it possible to turn a smaller violin into a viola? Yes, there are adjustments a luthier can make to a small violin so that it can be used a a viola. However, this would require you to purchase an instrument which is something that I don’t recommend for beginner students.  If a fourth grade student can reasonably play a 12” inch viola I have no problem recommending it if they want to play at school, but I will not recommend this option to a student that just isn’t big enough and you will learn why when I discuss the problem of instruments that are too large. I advocate that students begin on violin and switch to viola later, when they are big enough to play a viola and have acquired a fair amount of fluency in their violin technique. I personally, do not start students on viola. 

Which Sizing Methods Do Not Work? 

There are two sizing methods that most strings teachers find inaccurate. The first is sizing by age or height. The second is the yardstick method.

Age and height method: This is when students are sized using the average size instrument for their specific height or age. An example would be saying that all children age 3 need a 1/32 violin. In my studio have students ages 3-5 on this size violin. Children grow at different rates while some are smaller for their age and others are taller. At certain stages in their growth a child may grow unevenly, they may have longer arms then someone of their same height. Age and height alone cannot help you determine the violin size.  

The Yardstick Method: A yardstick is used to measure the length between the students collar bone and their left wrist. However, this method is generally completed incorrectly by measuring from the students shoulder to the palm of the hand or the middle tip of the finger, resulting in an instrument that is a few sizes too big. Again, this method is not reliable because it only accounts for one aspect of a students body rather than all variables that need to be considered. 

What other things do you look for and consider when sizing, other than the length of the arm? 

• Length of the neck
• Width of the palm
• Length and size of the fingers 
• Slope of the chest
• Width of the shoulders
• Build: thin, medium, stocky, tall, short 
• Shape of the jaw
• Does the violin look proportional on the student to what a full size looks like on an adult? 
• Can the student hold the weight of the instrument with his or her head alone? 
• Does the child look like they can command this instrument? Do they look like  they will be commanded by it instead?

Something Else to consider in violin Sizing:

Larger instruments are heavier. Therefore, a student who practices with a violin that is too big will be very sore and tired after a 30 minute practice session. This is sure to discourage students  from playing and practicing in general.

So what’s wrong with having a violin that is too big? Won’t my student grow into it eventually? 

It’s true that Suzuki teachers tend to size students a bit smaller than traditional (non- Suzuki) teachers. I do feel using a smaller violin is a large part of the reason of why Suzuki students are more fluid early on. We don’t burden the student with an instrument that is too large. This allows the student to command the instrument and play with flexibility. Of course, your child will grow into a large violin eventually, but they will not progress quickly (the large size hinders correct execution of technique) and your child may injure themselves before this point. There have been many times that I have moved a transfer student to a smaller size and they suddenly improve faster and play with more ease! They play more in tune and have better tone. There have been times where I would not take on a new student because they were not willing to switch to the correct size.  I don’t wish to create and be responsible for a situation that could cause a serious injury to one of my students.  

Instruments that are too big cause injury. 

Students will spend a lot of time playing their instruments so we need to set them up in a way that makes them comfortable. With tension comes injury and too large of instruments stresses the child’s body. Violins that are too big force the body into odd angles and poor alignment. Not only do students develop physical injuries from a large instrument there can be emotional side-effects. Students that have a too large of a violin become unmotivated due to pain and fatigue while playing. They may notice that it is harder for them to execute technique properly slowing their progression compared to classmates with correctly sized instruments. 

What type of physical injuries are caused by playing instruments that are too large? 

Carpal tunnel syndrome, Tendonitis, pain, scoliosis, headaches, poor alignment in the spine and shoulders, tension in the jaw and Temporomandibular Disorders (TMD). TMD are disorders that effect the Tempromandibular joint, the jaw and facial muscles. Read more about TMD here: http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/guide/temporomandibular-disorders

Why do some students want to move to a larger size before they are physically ready? 

• Students want to move to larger sizes to get a larger, warmer sound. It is true that bigger instruments have this quality of sound however, it’s the teachers responsibility to educate the student on tone production. The teacher should also point out  instruments that have a bad due to poor quality. 

• Students see larger violins as a mark of achievement. This is true only in that professional players play on a full size or 7/8. When a student moves to a larger size it doesn’t make them a more skilled player. Naturally, as students age they will require larger instruments because they grow physically. I can see that a student would assume that if you play for 3 years you’d be more experienced than a student that has played for one year. However, this may not be the case. The student who has played for one year may have advanced faster due to more practice. Students sometimes link experience with a larger instrument and not physical needs. As a teacher, I don’t see that my students with larger instruments are necessarily more experienced players. I could have a 14 year old beginner on a full size and an 8 year old with 4 years of experience on a 1/2.  I see progress through accomplishments, not instrument size. 

• In the past, there was a more limited selection of cool cases, bows and other accessories for fractional sized instruments. To use those things you have to have a bigger violin. This is no longer the situation. 

If playing a violin that is too big is so bad then why do some music teachers feel that it is okay? 

• The teacher may not understand the serious injuries that can be caused by an instrument that is too large. 

• Some teachers may not know how to size students correctly. 

• If the family chooses to buy the instrument instead of rent, the teacher could be trying to lessen the financial burden of purchasing another instrument. 
• While is is a great diservice to students, some teachers don’t pay attention to posture problems caused by large instruments. Sometimes it's because they are not aware there is an issue, perhaps it’s low on their prioirty scale, it could even be a school teacher that is overworked and has limited time to spend with students. 
• They want a larger sound overall for their orchestra. Bigger instruments have a bigger  sound and if everyone in your orchestra has a large violin the sound could be fuller. By teaching students techniques for good tone you can get them to sound really good on small instruments. Some teachers may not know how to make this happen other then opt for larger instruments. While it seams like a huge factor, teachers should opt for smaller instruments and samller group sounds in favor for future sucess and health. 

Why do some music stores push bigger instruments? 

• The sales person you are speaking to may not be trained in correct instrument sizing or have limited knowledge about string instruments.

• The music store may not carry smaller fractional sizes (1/10 and below). Instead of the store ordering  a smaller instrument suitable for your child they claim that the smallest one they have available is going to be “just fine”. I wouldn’t walk, I’d run out of any store that tells you this! This clearly shows they value your money over your child’s health, education and overall happiness. 

• The sales person most likely isn’t trained to teach small children. They don’t quite understand the demands that are required for little fingers.
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If a violin that is too big causes injury won’t a violin that is too small hurt as well?

Josha Bell is very popular concert violinist. He has recorded many albums and plays all over the world. I don’t know if you have met Joshua Bell in person, but he is a tall guy. He plays on a full size and I would guess the scroll of his violin is closer to his wrist rather then his finger tips and he has no problem getting around on his violin. Itzack Perlman has very large fingers that doesn’t hinder him on his full size violin. For both of these gentleman I’m sure their  full size violins feel a bit on the small size but it doesn’t hinder their playing. Even if students are in between sizes you should always go for the smaller size, it maybe a bit cramped until they grow a tad more but at least they are not running the risk of injury. 

How can you make your little violin sound bigger? 

Start buy asking a professional to help you select a great sounding violin. You could also try using a better quality set of strings and make sure you change theme every six months.  Purchase a “step-up” violin bow and have it rehaired every six months. Don’t use too much rosin and remember to wipe down your violin and strings with a soft cloth before you put it away. Make the tone exercises that your teacher gives you a top priority and practice them everyday. Take your violin to the shop and make sure it is set up correctly. 

I recommend the following strings for beginner and intermediate players: Tonica, Dominant, D’addario Helicore or Evah Pirazzi (this set is generally used by advanced students and professionals but there is no reason why a beginner or intermediate student couldn’t try them out!). For students with very small violins, Piratstro makes a set called “Chromcor” that fit instruments down to 1/32. 

Rosin: Paganini or Path 

Beginner Bow: K. Holtz Fiberglass model 10. I wouldn’t normally recommend fiber glass bow however this bow has the weight, balance and feel of a composite or wood bow but is made out of a study material, perfect for beginners. They also come in colors like blue, purple, green and red! 

Intermediate Bow: Presto Original or Presto Audition 

As always, shop local for your music supplies! 

How can you tell when it’s time to move up to a larger violin? 

When I see the child is starting to look cramped and there is a very large bend in the left elbow while playing it’s time to start looking at a larger size. The students intonation might be slightly off when it was fine to begin with, and the bow might hug the fingerboard (due to the odd angle of the bow arm) when this was not an issue before. I will go through my sizing procedure on the larger instrument and if the child is not quite ready for it, I will keep them on their current violin rather then change. I may also try a violin with the larger size on the label but with a brand that tends to be a bit smaller then the standard. 

Hermit Crabs

I think of Violin sizes like hermit crab shells. A hermit crab will move out of his shell house when it gets cramped, and he will move into a shell that fits just right. He would not move into a shell that was several sizes too large because he cannot hold onto the shell and move around easily (hermit crabs hold onto their shells with there abdominal muscles)! They will also refuse to move into a shell that is cracked or has holes just like a violinist won’t purchase a cracked violin. Sometimes hermit crabs create things called vacancy chains where the crabs line up from smallest to largest and trade up to the next size shell, which is a lot like students changes instrument sizes. Most hermit crabs prefer snail shells, which have the same logarithmic spiral as a string instrument’s scroll! 

Happy Sizing! 

Ms. Glenda